Thoughts on Chapters 7 and 8

The main thing that stood out to me in this reading was how similar the Proles are to just regular people. Winston was upset with the man in the pub because he didn’t remember everything about his life before the revolution but instead remembered a few specific details that were mostly triggered by certain words. I would say that this is a very common phenomenon. I feel like a lot of people around that age like to tell stories and often tell them in that sort rambling fashion. At least the people I know do that. They also have pubs and the lottery, antique shops, and street vendors. These are all things we have. The people that Winston talks to are fairly normal. They aren’t as controlled by the Party, they are still affected by them but much less so than characters who are in the main part of London. I think it’s interesting how the story seems to be leading towards the idea that regular people are going to be the key to bringing down the Party.


Winston thinks the answer lies with the Proles. This is possible, they are much freer than the rest of the population, but I think that’s part of why they are kept separate. It’s like the reservation in Brave New World. They have free reign over their area in the world but have very limited interactions with everyone else in the society, they are seen as outcasts and are always seen in a negative light. I think this is to limit the influence they can have over the rest of the society. They are used as a warning of what life could be if you weren't under constant control. It worked for the government in Brave New World so why not here as well.


Here are some questions for people to answer if you’re interested:

  • I’m interested to see how Winston’s interactions with the Proles advances and if it will be similar to Bernard’s interactions with John and the others, how do you think it will go?
  • Will he go to the Proles as the answer? Will the Proles have a similar fate to John where changing their lives ends up making it worse for them instead of better?
  • If the Proles are able to have an effect on society as Winston hopes they will, why did the Party let them stay?

Comments

  1. L. MoffittFebruary 12, 2021 at 9:09 AM

    These are great questions. Winston certainly wants to believe the Proles will provide the answer -- and yet your last question suggests that the Party clearly doesn't see them as a threat. The fact that the old man in the pub doesn't seem to have the same kind of awareness that he does may suggest that the Proles simply go about their business and don't pay attention to "politics."

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  2. Mayahuel MalikFebruary 12, 2021 at 9:10 AM

    i think in a way the proles don't care about the party's control, as you said since it doesn't effect them that much and they aren't really fully aware of the complete 'terror' of the party. Though i think there may be a few who will aid winston in a revolution (if he is not dead), it seems most of them could care less and would not waste the energy. This is why i believe the party lets them stay, because their life is not truly affected by the party and have no reason to rebel, though they probably could if they wanted to.

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    Replies
    1. LynetteFebruary 12, 2021 at 9:27 AM

      The Party also keeps the proles distracted with the Lottery and other small issues. This ensures that the proles are not fully aware of the Party's oppression, and without understanding the reason they should rebel, no such rebellion will happen.

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  3. DinaFebruary 12, 2021 at 9:13 AM

    I don't think that the Proles will do any good in Winston's efforts towards a revolution. Even though they may agree with Winston's ideas and reasoning behind his actions to a degree, I simply don't think they'd take the risk of putting themselves in harms way.

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    Replies
    1. L. MoffittFebruary 12, 2021 at 9:18 AM

      I think you're on to something here. We often wonder at the start of the book why more people don't rebel if the conditions are as terrible as Winston says. But people often only tend to fight the system when they have nothing left to lose, otherwise they think it's too risky.

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  4. Elliot GenglerFebruary 12, 2021 at 9:16 AM

    I agree, and I think it's really interesting how, to the proles, society really isn't dystopian. I disagree with the comparison between the proles and the savage reservation, because I think the proles have a lot more in common with the public in Brave New World. A group of people convinced they are fine through mass propaganda, with no awareness of what's actually going on.

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  5. Anna ParkFebruary 12, 2021 at 9:16 AM

    I agree with Dina, I don't think they will end up being able to help Winston because they won't go through with the actions. They are seen as no threat to the Party so that's why they are kept around. If they had the potential to become a threat, I feel like they would be eliminated or forced to convert (like the minor party members)

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  6. HaleyFebruary 12, 2021 at 9:20 AM

    You make some really interesting points. For how the Proles would be able to affect society I feel like one way it could happen is if Winston informed them of how things really worked and possibly even led them in rebelling because he mentioned how they would need to be conscious in order to want to change things and in that case he could give them the consciousness they lack. However, I don't really feel like that will happen and I think it is much more likely that the Proles will end up being worse off, like John in BNW.

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  7. ZoeyFebruary 12, 2021 at 9:23 AM

    I do agree that, just like Winston states, the proles are the only hope. At the same time it seems like they would need someone to organize them and get them to care about the party, however at some point Winston mentioned that the Party catches these kinds of people and makes them disappear. The only thing I think might make them care is if they could possibly realize that all the Party's control causes the scarcity in their lives.

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  8. Noel ChiFebruary 12, 2021 at 9:33 AM

    I also thought the proles were quite "normal." I found myself especially paying attention to the passage where Winston gets upset that the proles' memories of London before the Revolution were "useless" since all they remembered were fights with their neighbors and other, presumably trivial, facets of everyday life. I don't think Winston understands that those "trivial" things are what makes us human.

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  9. Olivia TaylorFebruary 12, 2021 at 9:35 AM

    I think that Winston will definitely continue trying to use the proles to his advantage, but like people have said, I don't think they will see any reason to help him, especially when they seem to be ok with their current lives. It seems like Winston's goal is to turn the proles into his army, to fight for the things he wants, and I doubt that he will be able to convince more than a few people that his cause is "worthy" of fighting for.

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  10. JoelFebruary 12, 2021 at 9:39 AM

    I think by giving the proles some freedoms to coerce them into working for the party, all hopes of having a revolution lead by proles is negated. The party, I believe, has successfully given a piece of freedom to the proles which directs all resentment the proles have away from the party to whatever strawman the party creates.

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  11. EliasFebruary 12, 2021 at 11:03 AM

    I like how you pointed out that the books seems to be going in that direction. I feel like Brave New World took it a similar way, since the guy meant to represent like a normal-ish person/the reader caused a bunch of commotion in that society by simply existing. I kind of hate the trope of introducing like a normal person as the key to solving the problems of the story, as I feel like it's boring, not super creative, and kind of also makes you question how the new society even came about at all if it's so easy for a normal everyday person to understand and disagree with the obvious flaws. Anyway, I'm ranting now but good post!

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  12. rakeMarch 6, 2021 at 6:16 PM

    With the hindsight of having read the whole book, and more importantly, the two chapters of *the book*, I think it's fair to say that not much has changed in our understanding of the proles. We don't see these poor people realistically bringing down the Party, but in the long run, we can envision a situation in which the neglected proles make some sort of difference.

    In answer to the third question you posed, the Party seems to think that neglecting the proles to a great extent leaves them in such a state of destitution that they are distracted from revolt by surviving..

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